I’m still digesting what occurred in the last episode. It’s not easy to see a protagonist do what Captain Jack did at the end of the story, but as you say, the story had the courage to follow through the awful logic that the situation produced, with each character sacrificing, or contemplating the sacrifice (e.g. Gwen’s baby) of someone they love.

Very sorry to see the demise of Ianto, though, as one of my favourite characters. It was handled poignantly, especially as Jack woke up beside a grieving Gwen, but it did, inevitably, get a little overshadowed. Interesting how the Ianto / Jack relationship, and the inescapable outcome of dating an Immortal (a dangerous thing to do, fitting in with the show’s reference to sacrifice to the Greek gods), was foreshadowed in the Radio 4 plays last week. The story beautifully challenged us to wonder if Jack was not only immortal, but amoral – someone ‘who doesn’t care’. He clearly does.

The ending was indeed desolate, and doesn’t feel like anything but the end of something. This is odd given the increasing profile, and overall quality of the series – and I thought they were building a Torchwood exhibition in Cardiff? I don’t think they’d do that if they didn’t anticipate the series carrying on (what with the possibility of Martha coming back, as well as possibility of Mickey as implied in the Who S4 finale, as well as at least two of the characters of Children of Earth – could Jack be jetting off for a cameo in the Who specials later in the year for redemption?).

Oh well, if it is the end of Torchwood, what a powerfully bitter-sweet (well, perhaps just bitter!) way to go – but it might just surprise us yet.

But it’s true to the story: after being bombed, shot-at, imprisoned, entombed and your family targeted by your own world government it’s hard to really be motivated even if “the 21st century is when it all happens.” The theme of the story was that they were pushed beyond breaking point, beyond what anyone could endure, and they pulled it off. But there are costs and consequences when you go that far: we saw it with Gwen’s disillusionment (her comments about the baby; her piece to camera saying how ashamed The Doctor must be looking at the Earth sometimes) and with Jack being unable to face it anymore.

If they could pick themselves up, dust themselves off and carry on after this then you’d have to question whether it had really been as costly and as big a deal as it appeared. This ending said it was: they won, but at the cost of everything. Even Torchwood. The 21st century will have to survive (or not) without them, because it asked too much this time. I don’t think it betrayed the story at all as a result, quite the reverse.

I agree – but sometimes it may be better to just leave things open, perhaps?

The whole premise of Torchwood was that they had to make difficult decisions and keep going. At the start of each show it stated “The 21st century is when it all changes; and Torchwood is ready” – that was completely betrayed by the ending of this story.

Seb: yes, saw your comments over on The Pickards. I agree about the female Cabinet Minister (would have been much better to just leave it looking like the PM was going to get away with it) but it was a minor detail that didn’t upset me. As for Jack abandoning Torchwood – actually I’d have been way MORE annoyed if they’d attempted a “right, let’s get back to work and rebuild the Hub” ending after all that. It can’t go back to how it was, for anyone. Overall I thought the show, right to the end, was true to its themes (the consequences of our choices) and the plot was logically followed through, which is why I overlook some undoubted quibbles.

Justathought: actually sounds like we agree on the majority of the finales; even S4 being “a little too much for me” is what I was trying to convey with “Death by Chocolate with extra lashings of chocolate sauce”. It was a mess, but also such a high that it got away with it.

Where we clearly mainly differ is in our reaction to the two ‘deus ex machina’ finales. I obviously have a serious hatred of endings which say in effect “things are looking bad … Oh, but everyone suddenly gets superpowers out of the blue and kill off the enemies! The end!” It’s a betrayal of the time and emotional investment of the audience. Why should we care next time there’s any jeopardy involved?

It’s not a case of saying “it’s just a scifi show” because you actually have to take even more care in establishing and keeping to the ground rules for making a scifi/fantasy universe believable and workable for it to succeed. If we don’t believe in the situation and the characters then the show is worthless. RTD too often fails to do that, which is why I’ve long thought that he’s as bad a science fiction writer as he is an excellent writer of drama and emotion.

By the way, I think my final scoreline – factoring in Torchwood S3 as well – would be 60-40. Maybe even 65-35 if you catch me at a charitable moment.

overall for me it’s more 75-25 not 50-50.